The Great Dive Podcast

Episode 186 – Pandora’s Dive Bag, Necessary Part 2

10/16/2020

In Part 2 of Is Certification Really Necessary, Jamesy and Brando try to work their way to the bottom of this controversial thread. Like many discussion boards, this one is full of twists and turns and dances around the root question. What is the definition of a diver? Have we evolved? Where are we going? Will these comments and questions get you as fired up as they did Brando? What will we find in the bottom of Pandora’s dive bag?

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3 Comments

Chuck

10/16/2020 09:55:56 pm

Great discussion! As usual lots of laughs. I think some people got the pointy ?, some of your commenters to the title to literal others got the scope behind. I agree, the instruction needs to be rounded by knowledge and visibly noticeable from the first day in the pool. I think to many students finish open drowning 101 saying, I’m not far behind my instructor in skill. I got this. They should be saying instead they have a long way to go to be at that level. I think the open water drowning course has become to simplistic and to easy to achieve. Just my .02 tho. I also know most new divers don’t want to put the effort of going from a hobby to an art. Which means you never truly master it but improve constantly

Lance

10/20/2020 05:59:38 am

Good episode, I always enjoy them, even when I’m not sure I agree with you. It is good to get different perspectives. First of all I was not offended. You and James seemed mildly concerned that I might take offense at some of your examples or language, I did not; If I was easily offended I doubt I would listen to TGDP. You also seemed to be laboring under the incorrect impression that I was an instructor, I am not. I have never ventured into the leadership track in any agency. I am certified through rescue with PADI with a couple of specialties and will be taking GUE Fundies next summer as I move into technical diving. I was certified in 93 and then took 20 years off of diving and only got back into it in the last few years. Not that all that is relevant but thought you should have the background so you didn’t have to speculate or wonder. I am also active on ScubaBoard.
You asked during this episode, what would be the harm in having more highly trained and competent instructors so I thought I would start there. First of all I will say that harm is the wrong word, what is the impact of the choice would be a more correct question, and that is simple, cost would go up. We have agencies that follow the methodology you describe, GUE, UTD and the like, and the cost is much higher. The average GUE instructor charges 200 dollars per day, so REC1 as an open water equivalent costs about $800-$1,000 dollars. You do in fact get the kind of diver you and James are advocating for but the cost is much higher.
The results would have consequences on the industry as a whole as well. It would not just affect instructors, but would pull demand down for equipment manufacturers, divemasters, boat operators, magazine subscriptions etc etc etc. It would have a tremendous impact on the industry; it would probably result in less environmental damage and would result in better divers but at a cost.
The industry has been arguing this for a while now and by and large has stayed on the path they have been on. If you want to meet the big agencies in the middle in a way that keeps up volume and does what you want then propose an expansion of Scuba Diver certification where the folks that just want to vacation dive every couple of years stay above 40 feet with a dive masters and only those folks that are serious about training do more. If you do that then you can rethink the OW – AOW – Rescue diver progression and end up with a REC 1 and REC 2 like GUE does and actually end up with OW divers that can plan and execute dives without supervision.

Jamesy

10/21/2020 07:13:58 am

Hi Lance, thank you for not being easily offended. It’s a prerequisite for our show! Also, you need to have the patience and respect for us that you are willing to listen to us vent about life and get into the groove of the show for 5-20 minutes. You can’t just turn on the microphone and have this stuff happen. Our true fans have shared with us that they enjoy that part of TGDP. Thank you for being a part of it.
I’ve been saying for years that the standard OW program should be a 30fsw max and supervised certification. Because that is the realistic level of knowledge and understanding the student receives.
Additionally, I don’t see any issue with the cost of Scuba education going up. The instructors deserve more for what they are doing. An $800 Scuba class for 20 hours of Instruction is a fair price. It is not extreme.
I don’t think the quick and cheap cruise ship classes will ever go away. I don’t think they need to. We are simply giving a voice to those who are in search for the “missing link” that it is out there.
Always fun discussing with our listeners and fans. Thank you.
Jamesy

Episode 186 – Pandora’s Dive Bag, Necessary Part 2